Home Forums Banned Cards Why are oppressive 2 card Walker/Sig Spell combos not banned?

This topic contains 2 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  LubedTaco 4 weeks ago.

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  • #3212

    LubedTaco
    Community Member

    Main reason for this post is why card combos like:

    Jace, Wielder + Mana Severance
    Narset, Parter + Timetwister (or any low cost wheel)
    Wrenn and Six + Crop Rotation

    Just to name a few that I have seen regularly in optimized play.

    Combos like this are extremely oppressive, especially from a Commander philosophy, since the game is intended to be played in a multiplayer setting.

    Below is the Commander Philosophy for banning. I am only using it for reference since it is a multiplayer format (and I cannot find a similar philosophy listed anywhere for Oathbreaker):

    • Cause severe resource imbalances
    • Allow players to win out of nowhere
    • Prevent players from contributing to the game in a meaningful way.
    • Cause other players to feel they must play certain cards, even though they are also problematic.
    • Are very difficult for other players to interact with, especially if doing so requires dedicated, narrow responses when deck-building.
    • Interact poorly with the multiplayer nature of the format or the specific rules of Commander.
    • Lead to repetitive game play.

    If we take the above examples:

    Jace combo breaks 5 rules at least, 6 if you consider winning out of nowhere

    Narset combo breaks all but winning.

    W6 Combo, while it is a good toolbox setup, causes major resource imbalances very early in the game and forces players to redirect all attention to the W6 player due to the ease of additional land drop cards available in the format, instant speed retrieval with Crop Rot, and due to having access to all lands in deck, able to set up early lockouts with Strip Mine/Wasteland recursion or rush a turn 3-4 Marit Lage with extreme consistency.

    Elderspell has been under my radar as well but in reality, having that as a Sig Spell is similar as having a Commander that destroys other commanders upon entering. It’s very niche and does not prevent the player from playing so it still seems fair, even as a Sig Spell.

    While I do not consider myself an expert, I will say that there needs to be a re-evaluation on Sig Spell + Walker combos as one person locking out the game by turn 4/5 with only their Walker + Sig seems extremely oppressive for a multiplayer format, both in a competitive and casual environment.

  • #3213

    LubedTaco
    Community Member

    Disregard the Philosophy aspect, I found it above over a hover menu.

  • #3214

    LubedTaco
    Community Member

    But even following Oathbreaker’s Ban Philosophy, most of these example still go against what is allowed.

    • Extreme early mana acceleration. –W6 + Crop Rot
    • Instant and Sorcery Cards that win the game with minimal work. –Mana Severance and Crop Rot (due to its low cost + 2 card combos it can grab just off lands)
    • Planeswalkers that interact too well as an Oathbreaker. –Jace, Wielder due to the Mana Severance combo. Narset due to the wheel effects legal in Blue being low cost
    • Cards that essentially restart the game. –technically Narset and any 3 mana wheel effect, but more like you restart the game and other players start at 1 card
    • Cards that lead to unreactive game states or unmemorable games. –both Jace combo and Narset combo

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